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Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

Discussion dans 'Musique, scène punk et skinhead' créé par anarchOi, 4 Août 2013.

  1. anarchOi

    anarchOi Comité auto-gestion Uploadeur Équipe technique Membre actif


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    Quand le drapeau noir devient un trademark sous copyright...

    Black Flag Co-Founder Sues Ex-Bandmates Over Use of Punk Group's Logo, Name

    Guitarist Greg Ginn claims the touring band Flag, consisting of Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Chuck Dukowski and Bill Stevenson, infringes on Black Flag rights owned by him and his label, SST Records.

    One of punk’s most iconic band names has provoked a new lawsuit.

    Fans may be confused to see two different groups performing this year under the name of Hermosa Beach punk outfit Black Flag--one fronted by founding guitarist Greg Ginn, and another touring as Flag with Ginn’s former bandmates Keith Morris, Dez Cadena, Chuck Dukowski and Bill Stevenson.

    PHOTOS: 'CBGB' Character Posters: 10 A-Listers Play Joey Ramone, Iggy Pop and Blondie

    So was Ginn. He claims he and his label, SST Records, exclusively own the rights to the Black Flag name (and “Flag” variation) and infamous logo, which Flag use on tour.

    He sued his 1979-mid 1980s bandmates Friday, seeking an injunction against their current tour, which kicked off in May and will stop in Los Angeles (pending this case) for FYF Fest on August 24. The suit describes the alleged infringement of the logo and name "Flag" as "a colorable imitation" that's "likely to cause confusion, mistake or deception among consumers."
    Ginn accuses Garfield and Morris of lying to the Trademark Office on registrations; using his own label's record covers to feign as though they've been continuing to use Black Flag since 1979, and in an what's alleged to be an act of "outrageous fraud," using bootleg SST t-shirts in an attempt to show they've been making such products in that time.

    Read the suit.

    Also named as a defendant is Black Flag’s most famous former member Henry Rollins, known for his own music, current radio show on KCRW, a column in LA Weekly and a role on FX’s Sons of Anarchy.
    The plaintiff is being represented by attorneys Evan Cohen and Cheryl Hodgson.

    Twitter: @THRMusic

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/black-flag-founder-sues-bandmates-599117
     
      Partager
  2. manuhc

    manuhc Uploadeur Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    Greg Ginn est le fondateur de black flag et du label SST.
    D'aprés ce que j'ai capté, il accuse les premiers membres de BF (Keith Morris qui est actuellement dans OFF !, dez cadena etc) d'avoir copier le logo de BF.
    Mais il accuse aussi "garfield" ; garfield, c'est le vrai nom de henri rollins....

    Ginn a toujours été un peu zarb, ça a pas l'air de s'être arrangé....
    et puis morris a eu du succés avec off !, rollins est devenue une star, alors que greg ginn (qui a fait TOUT black flag, de a à z) est trés peu connu....
    Il doit avoir les boules et veut au moins se garder le logo de BF...
    c'est tout petit.......
     
  3. vinvin

    vinvin Uploadeur Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    ...qu'ils s'étouffent avec leur drapeau
     
  4. Fanfan69

    Fanfan69 Nouveau membre


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    loool !! Ben si Black flag se mettent a attaquer en justice tous les gens qui ont mis leur logo sur un perfecto, sur une pochette de disque, ou qui se le sont fait tatouer, on est mal !! :) :)
     
  5. MisterRed

    MisterRed PRAVDA PUNK SUPERSTAR Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    Leur logo il a beau paraitre simple à première vu mais c'est juste la hantise du tatoueur haha^^
     
  6. manuhc

    manuhc Uploadeur Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    C'est tellement con tout ça.... Le logo de Black Flag a été créé par Raymond Petitbon, qui est le frére de Greg Ginn et c'est lui aussi qui a fait toutes les pochettes de Black Flag ; je sais qu'il s'est faché avec son frére justement pour une histoire de droit il y a quelques années (je sais pas si ils sont réconcilliés...) mais le plus con, c'est qu'il fait également les pochettes de OFF ! avec Keith Morris ! (par contre, c'est un vrai artiste qui expose et tout, ya des bouquins sur lui etc).
    Mais ils sont vraiment con ces vieux keupons à se battre pour du fric, des droits...ils ont vraiment oublié ce qu'était Black Flag à l'époque....:ecouteurs:

    Enfin, comme si c'était pas tout, Black Flag renait de ses cendres !!! voici leur nouveau titre, ça date de mai 2013 :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKoeHlFgbMA


    Ils devaient sortir un double lp cet été, mais j'ai rien vu pour l'instant......


    Edit : je viens de vraiment capter le premier message d'anarchoi : en fait, Morris a reformé Black Flag (sans greg ginn) il y a un ou deux ans sous le nom de FLAG en reprennant le logo de BF et les titres de BF.
    Ginn a vu rouge, a fait procés ET a lui mm reformé BF sous son vrai nom, en expliquant que le nom, logo et consort lui appartenaient (ce qui est vrai).
    Il a pris un autre chanteur et a sorti le titre que je vous ai collé plus haut et a enchainé les concerts durant l'été 2013 (les concerts entiers sont sur youtube) et compte donc sortir un nouvel double lp de BLACK FLAG !!
     
  7. Falaise

    Falaise Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    et dans l'histoire, qui a eu gain de cause ? Morris ou Ginn ?

    (je parle des poursuites judiciaires)
     
  8. manuhc

    manuhc Uploadeur Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    j'en sais rien où en est la procédure, mais le fait est c'est bel et bien Greg Ginn l'ayant droit de Black Flag ; FLAG ne tourne plus, reste le nouveau BF de ginn....
     
  9. foxer

    foxer Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    Merci manu pour les explications...parce qu'entre les divers noms de groupe, leurs abréviations, les noms des gars et leurs surnoms j'étais total paumé moi...
    Là au moins c'est clair, on sait qui fait quoi exactement et pourquoi tout ce petit monde s'embrouille...
    Y'a pas à dire mais certains devraient jamais sortir de leur retraite ou essayer de faire renaitre une légende... le passé c'est le passé...
     
  10. anarchOi

    anarchOi Comité auto-gestion Uploadeur Équipe technique Membre actif


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    Re : Black Flag : un membre fondateur poursuit en justice un ex membre pour l'utilisation de leur logo

    La suite:




    Black Flag's Greg Ginn Loses Injunction Against Keith Morris' FLAG


    Meanwhile, court determines that Henry Rollins never quit the band

    UPDATE: FLAG's camp now says Ginn lost his "preliminary injunction" against Keith Morris' band and Henry Rollins, not the actual lawsuit. The lawsuit has not and could still go to court, but this ruling essentially says that it has very little chance of holding up.

    Black Flag founder Greg Ginn has lost the preliminary injunction in his lawsuit against FLAG, the spinoff band featuring founding singer Keith Morris and longtime bassist Chuck Dukowski. While FLAG — which also features OG members Dez Cadena and Bill Stevenson, and Descendants guitarist Stephen Egerton — has been out destroying shows like this Redondo Beach Moose Lodge thrasher, Ginn has reformed his own Black Flag unit and hit some festivals here and there. Henry Rollins isn't involved in either, but somehow he was named in the suit.

    The rub seems obvious, if not a little too by-the-Highlander-playbook: In Ginn's opinion, there can only be one Black Flag, and though the other fellas are playing under a modified name, they shouldn't use the handle they've adopted or the iconic Black Flag logo. (It doesn't help that they've all been playing the same songs.) Further, Ginn accused Rollins of using and abusing the legacy too, and alleged that both Morris' unit and Rollins attempted to secure their rights to the Black Flag copyright by manufacturing or selling (or something) bootleg records and T-shirts.

    The details seemed hazy to begin with and the legal action appeared not a little bit petty, plus futile considering how many key membership changes the band went through over the years. No surprise, the decision is in and the court ruled against Ginn and his iconic Southern California punk label SST.

    A judge found that: SST has no rights to the Black Flag copyright; Ginn has no special rights to any of the trademarks; neither Ginn nor the label gave a damn about copyrghts or trademarks until now; Rollins never quit Black Flag (!); fans are smart enough to know which band is which; and nobody tried to screw anybody over, so let's all give it a rest.

    Here's what all of that looks like in legalese, via FLAG's camp:

    (1) the court found that SST had no rights in the trademarks;
    (2) Ginn seemed to have no individual rights in the Black Flag trademarks;
    (3) even if either had had any rights in those marks, they had abandoned those rights through a failure to police the mark for nearly 30 years;
    (4) the defendants’ claim that the Black Flag assets were owned by a statutory partnership comprised of various former band members – even if these members only consisted of Henry and Ginn, based on (a) accepting Ginn’s argument that he never quit and given that there is no evidence or allegation that Henry ever quit – has merit;
    (5) that even if the plaintiffs had some trademark claim in the marks, there was no likelihood of consumer confusion between Black Flag and Flag given the ample press coverage over the dispute; and
    (6) the trademark application and registration that Henry and Keith made was done in good faith (e.g. not fraudulently) – and is thus not necessarily subject to cancellation – given that they understood their actions to have been done on the part of the Black Flag partnership (see No. 4, above).



    Greg Ginn 'Forced' to Sue FLAG, Says Black Flag Founder's Lawyer

    Hardcore punks' knock-down, drag-out feud drags on further

    Greg Ginn's lawyer is on the defensive after news broke that the Black Flag founder is suing his former bandmates. As SPIN previously reported, there are two dueling Black Flag reunions, one led by Ginn (they still call themselves "Black Flag") and another lineup that simply goes by the name FLAG.

    The latter features the hardcore unit's original vocalist Keith Morris, guitarist-singer Dez Cadena, bassist Chuck Dukowski, drummer Bill Stevenson, and Descendents guitarist Stephen Egerton. Ginn filed suit against FLAG last week, arguing that they don't have the right to use the iconic Black Flag logo and insisting that their name is a "a colorable imitation" that's "likely to cause confusion, mistake, or deception among consumers." He's also accusing his onetime associates of filing fraudulent trademark applications to the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

    Now, in an interview with MTV Hive, Ginn's attorney, Evan Cohen, says that FLAG left his client no choice but to take legal action. "They forced us to do this," he said, "because not only do we need to bring an opposition to the trademark application in the trademark office, but we also need to bring what’s called a cancelation action for cancelation of the existing mark — for the four bars."

    The "four bars" he's referring to are, of course, part of Black Flag's ubiquitous logo. According to Cohen, FLAG went from using a slightly off-brand version of the symbol — four black bars all arranged in an even row, rather than an uneven one — to ripping off the real thing outright.

    "It's like they ratcheted up their usage of the Black Flag materials and it came to a point where we couldn't not sue them," the lawyer said. In his lawsuit, which can be read via the Hollywood Reporter, Ginn also alleges that FLAG and Henry Rollins (who isn't actually a member of FLAG) used bootleg SST record label T-shirts to convince the Trademark Office of their claim to the Black Flag legacy.

    Cohen told MTV that Ginn probably would not have gotten lawyers involved if it weren't for the supposedly fraudulent trademark applications — that's why Ginn filed the suit on August 2, several months after FLAG first announced plans to tour.

    "I think we discovered more and more of the things that FLAG was doing with regard to the trademarks," Cohen said. "I knew about one of the fraudulent applications that [Henry] Rollins and [Keith] Morris filed. I didn't know about the other one until about three weeks ago. For whatever reason — and I still don't know the answer to the question — Henry Rollins and Keith Morris filed these trademark applications last September in which they had a bunch of information that was not truthful."

    Stay tuned for the inevitable updates as they break.



    Henry Rollins Will Finally Reunite With Black Flag — In Court

    Rollins and FLAG members sued by founding Black Flag member Greg Ginn

    ugust 5 2013, 12:04 PM ET

    Earlier this year, two separate versions of Black Flag reunited. There's Black Flag proper, led by group founder Greg Ginn, and then there's FLAG, featuring original vocalist Keith Morris, guitarist-singer Dez Cadena, bassist Chuck Dukowski, drummer Bill Stevenson, and Descendents guitarist Stephen Egerton. Now, Ginn has filed suit against members of FLAG, as well as former Black Flag singer Henry Rollins, despite the fact that he's not involved in either reunion.

    According to the Hollywood Reporter, Ginn is claiming that he and his label, the legendary SST Records, own exclusive rights to the "Black Flag" name and iconic logo, which FLAG uses during their live shows. Ginn sued his ex-comrades on August 2, seeking an injunction against their ongoing tour. The suit, which can be read in its entirety via THR, claims that FLAG's name and logo are "a colorable imitation" that's "likely to cause confusion, mistake, or deception among consumers."

    In his filing, Ginn alleges that Morris and Rollins (a.k.a. Henry Garfield) lied to the United States Patent and Trademark Office on registrations. He accuses the two of "using his own label's record covers to feign as though they've been continuing to use Black Flag since 1979," as THR explains. Ginn is also lobbing a charge of "outrageous fraud" against Rollins and FLAG, arguing that they also used bootleg SST T-shirts to "show they've been making such products in that time."

    Part of the lawsuit focuses on Dukowski, who previously sued Ginn and SST in 2007. At the time, Dukowski was insisting that he was entitled to a portion of Black Flag's revenue because he was still a member of the band. They eventually settled, with Dukowski reportedly agreeing to never perform under the Black Flag name or use the group's logo for profit.

    Ginn's Black Flag are planning to release a new album, which would be the band's first studio release since 1985's In My Head. So far, they've shared two songs from the upcoming effort: "Down in the Dirt" and "The Chase." FLAG, meanwhile, are touring the U.S.
     
  11. manuhc

    manuhc Uploadeur Membre actif


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