Liste de groupes douteux

Oi! the bloke · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Re: Liste de groupes douteux

flea a dit: ↑

@ anarchOi

It's great that you're committed, but please, be realistic! And stay fair!

January 14th, Oi! the bloke asked whether he had the right "de ne pas avoir honte de mes origines sans etre taxé de nazi". I'm not sure that one may assume that his question also meant: Do I have the right to like France, or even love it?, and I'm convinced that the question did not mean: Do I have the right to be proud of France?

However, this is exactly what you interpreted. First you stated that Oi! the bloke would be giving us "le discours patriote typique" (which he didn't), next you detected his "amour dégeulasse pour le drapeau national" (how were you able to know?), after that you reproached him "défense vis a vis les patriotes" (which can't be found anywhere in his posting), and finally you rated him as "le genre typique d'amoureux du drapeau national". As I said, that's your interpretation.

You even went further saying that "on insiste seulement sur l'anti-capitalisme, l'anti-fascisme et l'anti-nationalisme, ....", loosing control completely by equalizing patriotism and nationalism. While one could discuss endlessly what "ne pas avoir honte" could or might imply, one cannot discuss that patriotism and nationalism are "2 choses différentes qui ne sont pas synonymes", for one single and very simple reason: because they are different things. Very different things. You should have known that.

Remember that thread where someone mentioned this Baader-film? There you wrote that Germany would have turned into a Stalinistic country, had the Rote Armee Fraction succeeded. As far as I'm informed about the RAF and that period in history, I would agree. Just as you, I would not want a repetion of Stalinism, and that's why I ask you not to be RAF-like and Stalinistic yourself as you were towards Oi! the bloke. It's not only a question of fairness, it's also a question of consistent reasing. ;-)

Cheers!

EDIT: "reasing" is a typo, what I tried to type was "reasoning" )

Cliquez pour agrandir...

They wanna waste my life
They wanna waste my time
They wanna waste my life
And they've stolen it away

Nikko345 · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

C'est un nouveau genre d'Inquisition, suivie d'une nouvelle sorte d'hérésie et qui se terminera par une chasse au sorcière.

Au lieu d'envoyer chier à bout portant (que je trouve qui est geste totalement gratuit et irrespectueux) les personnes qui veulent envoyer leur style musicaux qui n'est pas acceptable sur ce site, leur dire d'une façon non-aggressive que les rêgles de ce site ne permet pas tel genre musicaux sans ouvrir un débat en n'en plus finir, que te dire tel groupe est comme ceci et comme cela. Quand je viens sur ce site j'attend d'avoir du plaisir et d'avoir des discussions qui sont sensées.

Moi aussi je réagi des fois de façon irrationnelle, mais c'est pas une solution et je le sais et je tiens à m'excuser à ceux que j'ai fait tort, car on est tous humains et le respect de l'autre doit passer avant tout.

Et de voir cela ça m'a déplu, c'était mon mot. Merci

Nikko345 \00/

Pablito · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

ouai non mais faut pas exagerer non plus.

c'pas une chasse aux sorcières.
Seulement c'est un sujet d'tension qui refait surface.

skypy69 · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

cats a dit: ↑

J'aime bien aussi skypipi.... Puisque le scato a l'air de faire marrer

Cliquez pour agrandir...

encor une fois j'aurais du fermer ma gueule.......
:roflmao:

skypy69 · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Re: Liste de groupes douteux

flea a dit: ↑

@ anarchOi

It's great that you're committed, but please, be realistic! And stay fair!

January 14th, Oi! the bloke asked whether he had the right "de ne pas avoir honte de mes origines sans etre taxé de nazi". I'm not sure that one may assume that his question also meant: Do I have the right to like France, or even love it?, and I'm convinced that the question did not mean: Do I have the right to be proud of France?

However, this is exactly what you interpreted. First you stated that Oi! the bloke would be giving us "le discours patriote typique" (which he didn't), next you detected his "amour dégeulasse pour le drapeau national" (how were you able to know?), after that you reproached him "défense vis a vis les patriotes" (which can't be found anywhere in his posting), and finally you rated him as "le genre typique d'amoureux du drapeau national". As I said, that's your interpretation.

You even went further saying that "on insiste seulement sur l'anti-capitalisme, l'anti-fascisme et l'anti-nationalisme, ....", loosing control completely by equalizing patriotism and nationalism. While one could discuss endlessly what "ne pas avoir honte" could or might imply, one cannot discuss that patriotism and nationalism are "2 choses différentes qui ne sont pas synonymes", for one single and very simple reason: because they are different things. Very different things. You should have known that.

Remember that thread where someone mentioned this Baader-film? There you wrote that Germany would have turned into a Stalinistic country, had the Rote Armee Fraction succeeded. As far as I'm informed about the RAF and that period in history, I would agree. Just as you, I would not want a repetion of Stalinism, and that's why I ask you not to be RAF-like and Stalinistic yourself as you were towards Oi! the bloke. It's not only a question of fairness, it's also a question of consistent reasing. ;-)

Cheers!

EDIT: "reasing" is a typo, what I tried to type was "reasoning" )

Cliquez pour agrandir...

DO YOU CAN PARLER FRANCAIS S'TE PLAIS????

anarchOi · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Bill-oi a dit: ↑

je voudrait pas etre vexant, mais ces pas un peu egocentrique ca ?

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Euh j'ai beau chercher mais je ne vois pas ce que tu trouve d'égocentrique dans tout ca, élabores un peu..

Citation ↑ :

@ anarchOi

It's great that you're committed, but please, be realistic! And stay fair!

January 14th, Oi! the bloke asked whether he had the right "de ne pas avoir honte de mes origines sans etre taxé de nazi". I'm not sure that one may assume that his question also meant: Do I have the right to like France, or even love it?, and I'm convinced that the question did not mean: Do I have the right to be proud of France?

However, this is exactly what you interpreted. First you stated that Oi! the bloke would be giving us "le discours patriote typique" (which he didn't), next you detected his "amour dégeulasse pour le drapeau national" (how were you able to know?), after that you reproached him "défense vis a vis les patriotes" (which can't be found anywhere in his posting), and finally you rated him as "le genre typique d'amoureux du drapeau national". As I said, that's your interpretation.

You even went further saying that "on insiste seulement sur l'anti-capitalisme, l'anti-fascisme et l'anti-nationalisme, ....", loosing control completely by equalizing patriotism and nationalism. While one could discuss endlessly what "ne pas avoir honte" could or might imply, one cannot discuss that patriotism and nationalism are "2 choses différentes qui ne sont pas synonymes", for one single and very simple reason: because they are different things. Very different things. You should have known that.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

First, we already make the difference between nationalism and patriotism and we know both are not synonymous. I never said patriotism equals nationalism, now this is YOUR interpretation

Facts are that "Oi! the bloke" register on a strictly antifascist forum in the only goal to support patriotism, support nationalist and RAC bands, and promote these kind of ideas here.

I don't have anything about peoples not being ashamed of where they comes from. But i'll repeat the exact same thing i said to "Oi! the bloke" : being proud and not being ashamed is 2 different things.

"Oi! the bloke" proved not only he is proud to be french, but he's also proud of his national flag, he seems to hang out with patriots and he obviously have nothing against nationalism and RAC since he registered only to defend those bands here.

Citation ↑ :

Remember that thread where someone mentioned this Baader-film? There you wrote that Germany would have turned into a Stalinistic country, had the Rote Armee Fraction succeeded. As far as I'm informed about the RAF and that period in history, I would agree. Just as you, I would not want a repetion of Stalinism, and that's why I ask you not to be RAF-like and Stalinistic yourself as you were towards Oi! the bloke. It's not only a question of fairness, it's also a question of consistent reasing. ;-)

Cliquez pour agrandir...

lol this is totally off-topic, the big difference between us and them is that we will not act if we are not a majority of peoples willing a change.

And on this forum, we are a majority of peoples who chosen to not accept shitty speech like Oi! The Bloke's who promote patriotism, nationalism, and RAC in the same message.

vinvin · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Nikko345 a dit: ↑

C'est un nouveau genre d'Inquisition, suivie d'une nouvelle sorte d'hérésie et qui se terminera par une chasse au sorcière.

Au lieu d'envoyer chier à bout portant (que je trouve qui est geste totalement gratuit et irrespectueux) les personnes qui veulent envoyer leur style musicaux qui n'est pas acceptable sur ce site, leur dire d'une façon non-aggressive que les rêgles de ce site ne permet pas tel genre musicaux sans ouvrir un débat en n'en plus finir, que te dire tel groupe est comme ceci et comme cela. Quand je viens sur ce site j'attend d'avoir du plaisir et d'avoir des discussions qui sont sensées.

Moi aussi je réagi des fois de façon irrationnelle, mais c'est pas une solution et je le sais et je tiens à m'excuser à ceux que j'ai fait tort, car on est tous humains et le respect de l'autre doit passer avant tout.

Et de voir cela ça m'a déplu, c'était mon mot. Merci

Nikko345 \00/

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Non mais vous etes bouché ou quoi, y'a pas a tortiller!!
Il n'y a qu'a lire la charte!!
On s'en tapes des tendances musicales, c'est sur les tendances politiques que cela coince.
Et puis le mec qui d'entrée annonce que le forum est une blague, désolé mais c'est gratuit et irrespectueux

Alors ton inquisition, ton heresie, tu sais ou tu peux te le mettre ton balai "de sorcieres" (la tu peux dire que s'est déplacé)
:nananana:

flea · 16 Janvier 2010

Re: Re : Liste de groupes douteux

@ anarchOi

Citation ↑ :

First, we already make the difference between nationalism and patriotism and we know both are not synonymous. I never said patriotism equals nationalism, now this is YOUR interpretation

Cliquez pour agrandir...

No, it isn't. ) Read what you wrote: "on insiste seulement sur l'anti-capitalisme, l'anti-fascisme et l'anti-nationalisme, ...."
If you do not equalize patriotism and nationalism, this statement CANNOT imply the rejection of patriotism. That logical, isn't it? )

Citation ↑ :

Facts are that "Oi! the bloke" register on a strictly antifascist forum in the only goal to support patriotism, support nationalist and RAC bands, and promote these kind of ideas here.

... "Oi! the bloke" proved not only he is proud to be french, but he's also proud of his national flag, he seems to hang out with patriots and he obviously have nothing against nationalism and RAC since he registered only to defend those bands here.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

It's true that I haven't read Oi! the bloke's older postings, so I won't judge on that. What I can tell, however, is that what you wrote is a total condemnation of a person, and once again you mention patriotism and nationalism in the same breath. It's evident that you don't like people who like their country or even love it, okay, that's your right, and it's your right to say that. It's also your right to be emotional, but let me ask you this: What are you afraid of? That any of the members here aren't steady enough? That they might turn to the 'wrong side' when reading one of Oi! the bloke's postings? In other words: why do you try so eagerly to 'protect' people? Did you ever realize that this kind of 'protection' is nothing but patronization? Why do you lend yourself to that??? Just let people go EVEN IF they have very different opinions. Try to convince them, or ignore them, just as you like, but DON'T patronize or label or condemn them. That will be much more effective than trying to create a 'clean' virtual world where 'clean' people gather and dance a ring-a-ring-of-roses.

Cheers!

anarchOi · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Citation ↑ :

No, it isn't. ) Read what you wrote: "on insiste seulement sur l'anti-capitalisme, l'anti-fascisme et l'anti-nationalisme, ...."
If you do not equalize patriotism and nationalism, this statement CANNOT imply the rejection of patriotism. That logical, isn't it? )

Cliquez pour agrandir...

It's called an enumeration

I'm enumerating what we oppose to.

Since this member promoted patriotism and nationalism, i just reminded him we are against patriotism, against nationalism, and that we are in an anti-fascist forum.

Read the official political positions of the website. We are very clear about our positions concerning these ideas, and we are also clear about making the difference between the twos.

This debate is useless. Our political positions are clear and everyone who can read french know it

http://charte.pirate-punk.net

Citation ↑ :

and once again you mention patriotism and nationalism in the same breath

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Because both patriotism AND nationalism are concerned in this debate.

Citation ↑ :

It's also your right to be emotional, but let me ask you this: What are you afraid of? That any of the members here aren't steady enough? That they might turn to the 'wrong side' when reading one of Oi! the bloke's postings? In other words: why do you try so eagerly to 'protect' people? Did you ever realize that this kind of 'protection' is nothing but patronization? Why do you lend yourself to that???

Cliquez pour agrandir...

lol you understand nothing...

First stop saying "i"

it's "WE"

I don't decide anything, i don't take any decisions. Members do.

We chosen to be a forum that is a TOOL for the anti-fascist scene. Not a feee tribune. When we first opened the website, there was a flooding of ambiguous skinheads who promoted RAC and nationalism, even some racist music.... It is our job to apply the members decisions.

There are hundreds of other forums where you can promote those ideas and those bands, but not here. And we want to assure this will always stay as it.

Not even talking about how those ideas and those bands bring endless shitty debates and ruin the forum ambiance while we should be talking about progressive things.

Citation ↑ :

Did you ever realize that this kind of 'protection' is nothing but patronization?

Cliquez pour agrandir...

It's called auto-management, one of the most important basis of anarchism.

Citation ↑ :

Just let people go EVEN IF they have very different opinions.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

It's not about different opinions, we already have a lot of VERY different opinions on this forum. It's about basis anti-fascism.

Pirate-punk.net is not a free tribune, never been and never will. We are a TOOL for peoples sharing the same points of unity.

Citation ↑ :

Try to convince them, or ignore them, just as you like, but DON'T patronize or label or condemn them. That will be much more effective than trying to create a 'clean' virtual world where 'clean' people gather and dance a ring-a-ring-of-roses.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. Have you ever managed a political forum like this one ?

If we let these debates go, this forum will die in 1 month because everyone will be sick of seeing how ALL discussions turn into endless debates. Trust me this has already happenned, the forum went close of death a couple of times because our political positions were unclear and it created too much fights.

Pirate-punk.net is not a battleground for peoples having nothing in common.
We already have enough opposite points of views without having to tolerate the shitheads targetted by our main political activities.

On the other side, i'm pretty sure you have nothing against the fact we disallow authoritarian communist who would consider you as a nazi and would beat you, seeing how much you defend patriots, eh ????

anarchOi · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Le_VautOUR a dit: ↑

Certains feraient mieux de se remettre en question parce que là c'est l'hopital qui se fout de la charité...

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Super argumentation, merci d'être passé, surtout que personne à aucune idée de quoi tu parle...

Le_VautOUR · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Certains feraient mieux de se remettre en question parce que là c'est l'hopital qui se fout de la charité...

Le_VautOUR · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

C'est à toi que je m'adressais. Tu débarques, tu me reproches gratuitement d'être là quand ça sent le roussi, que ma participation est nulle... en résumé voilà, merci AnarchOi c'est sympa. Toi par contre t'es rarement ou même jamais impliqué dans des topics pourris... tu ne t'y investis pas pendant DES HEURES.
Et après j'adore quand tu écris que non, t'agresses pas les gens, que le forum n'est pas strict etc.

C'est bon on a compris.

Nikko345 · 16 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

"On s'en tapes des tendances musicales, c'est sur les tendances politiques que cela coince."

Et pourquoi ne pas lui dire d'une façon poli, que ce n'est point acceptable sur ce site. Parce que vous êtes tous des dur à cuire et Paf! Paf! et Paf! sur la gueule as-tu compris maintenant, je peux t'en donner d'autres c'est gratuit. Des Français m'ont dit un jour que le Québec ce n'est que des barbares qui y vivent, tu viens juste me prouver le contraire. (Même si tu ne représentes pas la totalité des Français de France) (Shhhh! ça pourait être perçu comme de l'ethnicisme culturel)

"Alors ton inquisition, ton heresie, tu sais ou tu peux te le mettre ton balai "de sorcieres"

Oui te sodomiser avec, parceque tu as l'air d'avoir des problèmes homophobes!!!O_O

P.S. Tu ne dois pas avoir beaucoup d'amis à part sur ce site. (oooooohhhh! excuse-moi celle la était trop basse :mouhaha: :mouhaha: :mouhaha: )

Bill-oi · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

anarchOi a dit: ↑

Euh j'ai beau chercher mais je ne vois pas ce que tu trouve d'égocentrique dans tout ca, élabores un peu.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Et bien tu insinu que ce forum estplus coherant que les autres,
pourquoi ca ?

cats · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Bill-oi a dit: ↑

Et bien tu insinu que ce forum estplus coherant que les autres,
pourquoi ca ?

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Parce qu'on est là !:nananana:

anarchOi · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

Citation ↑ :

en résumé voilà, merci AnarchOi c'est sympa. Toi par contre t'es rarement ou même jamais impliqué dans des topics pourris... tu ne t'y investis pas pendant DES HEURES.
Et après j'adore quand tu écris que non, t'agresses pas les gens, que le forum n'est pas strict etc.

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Euh, tant qu'il y a des mecs comme toi pour ne pas comprendre pourquoi un forum anticapitaliste s'oppose au capitalisme et pourquoi un forum antifa s'oppose aux groupes ambigus, c'est mon devoir de leur expliquer les raisons.

À la différence de toi dont la totalité des messages concerne des polémiques ridicule. Tu semble être ici uniquement pour ca. T'a uploadé aucun album, t'a posté 40 messages et la majorité c'était uniquement pour nous critiquer et participer a des polémiques de merde

J'ai jamais prétendu que ce forum n'était pas strict, tu dis n'importe quoi.... On se revendique être un FORUM ANTIFASCISTE RADICAL être radical c'est être strict, on a jamais dis le contraire.

Citation ↑ :

Et bien tu insinu que ce forum estplus coherant que les autres,
pourquoi ca ?

Cliquez pour agrandir...

Parce que la cohérence signifie d'appliquer dans nos actions les positions politiques que nous prétendons représenter.

Dans ce cas ci c'est l'anti-capitalisme et le punk conscient, The Casualties étant probablement le groupe punk le plus loin de ces principes.

Bill-oi · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

mouai,
mais en cherchant bien tu peut trouver.

Oi! the bloke · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

vas y traites ca me fais rire, n'empeche que t'es qu'un facho de gauche....
FACHO
FACHO
FACHO
FACHO

anarchOi · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

venant de toi c'est une grosse blague

t'as fait ton spectacle, tu peux foutre le camp maintenant

va t'inscrire sur le forum du front national ou jsais pas, ils vont adorer ton discours !

Oi! the bloke · 17 Janvier 2010

Re : Liste de groupes douteux

t es genial!!!!!!!!!!!
MAIS T ES UN FACHO

Actualité

Connexion / S'inscrire

Se connecter ou s'inscrire

Liste de groupes douteux

Oi! the bloke Nouveau membre

Nikko345 Membre actif

Pablito Membre actif

skypy69 Membre actif

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anarchOi Comité auto-gestion Uploadeur Équipe technique Membre actif

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Ma petite liste du meilleur de 2019

CRASS : Traitres capitalistes qui utilisent les copyrights contre des anarcho-punks

labels capitalistes

Liste d'echange et de recherche

Groupes belges

Covid et groupes punk

Cherche groupes de punk hardcore

Groupes de Crust et de Street a conseiller ?

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